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Cathie's Corner Blog

Who Gets To Throttle The Staff?

(Discipline and Performance) Permanent link

(Published September 21, 2009)

I heard a line of dialogue on the television the other night that had me giggling.  A couple of co-workers were battling, and I do mean battling, over a procedural question.  One of them had the other by the shirt collar up against the wall, as she verbally assaulted him with all the reasons why the procedure needed to be changed.  Unseen by either of them, their boss came up behind them and said mildly, "Strictly speaking, throttling the staff is my job."

"I have got to turn that into a blog," I thought.

As companies go global, mergers and acquisitions are common, and smaller companies are gobbled up by larger ones; sometimes the lines in the chain of command get blurred.  Or, as employers are downsizing, senior members of a team are given the responsibility of overseeing a junior member, without being given actual supervisory responsibilities.  I've frequently had dotted-line reports, both with people reporting to me and people that I reported to.  My very first supervisory assignment, more than 20 years ago, covered three people; one reported directly to me and two were direct reports of someone at our regional office, but had a dotted-line report to me since I was on-site.

So, who gets to throttle the staff?

In a case like my television example, where a junior team member was being overseen by a senior one but with both members being supervised by the same person, any disciplinary action needs to be taken by the supervisor.  Under no circumstances should discipline be made on a lateral basis.  If there are problems, the senior member who is doing the overseeing should notify the supervisor, and then back off and let the supervisor do his or her job.

It's a little more complicated when there are "dueling supervisors."  You shouldn't be surprised if the supervisor tries to push the issue off on HR, or at least come to HR for guidance.  Asking for guidance is fine, but don't let your line managers push their responsibilities off on you.

It's my opinion that when there is an "official" supervisor and a dotted-line supervisor, the official supervisor should be the one who handles all disciplinary issues.  Just as with a senior team member checking up on a junior one, any issues should be reported to the managing supervisor so that he or she can take action.  Now, if the managing supervisor chooses to include the dotted-line or "unofficial" supervisor in the process, that's different.

If the employee in question has two direct supervisors, then I would say it depends on the offense.  If the offense is related to one specific supervisor, such as a performance issue with one supervisor's work, then that supervisor should be the one to address the question.  But if it's something that affects both supervisors, such as an excessive absence issue, then both supervisors should be involved.  I'm not saying that they should gang up on the employee, but the employee should be aware that the two supervisors present a united front.

Of course, it goes without saying that actually throttling the staff is a no-no!

Catherine Bannon is an HR consultant in Marshfield, MA (catherine.bannon@gmail.com). Bannon worked for 10 years in HR management before starting her consulting practice.


I'm rather embarrassed that an HR person would presume to have more knowledge about the skills necessary to do the job then someone who actually does the job. Yes, yes, I can read a resume with the best of them. I can even ask interview questions. But, I would rather get an opinion from somebody who does the actual job, Before I start "throttling" or tell a manager how to "throttle". It is usually the reverse managers don't want any H.R involvement in terms of discipline, unless termination is involved.
Posted by: Eileen at 9/23/2009 12:07 AM


I think you may have misunderstood me, Eileen. I suggested that HR NOT do the disciplining instead of the line managers. Also, this blog is read by more than just HR professionals. In no way am I suggesting that HR should take over the disciplinary process.
Posted by: Cathie at 9/23/2009 3:37 PM


I doubt few H.R professional reads this blog at all except as a novelty; there certainly are none in the regular talk forum that’s for sure. It appears this site caters to job seekers primarily “from what I have been reading” that is whom my comments were directed at Cathie. I know that job-seekers are often told that they should propose new and innovative solutions to employers' problems, and that's great -- but if the employer assures you that you're off-base about something internal like workload, or discipline they probably know what they're talking about. Unless you've seen reason to believe them incompetent, you should believe what they say.
Posted by: Eileen at 9/23/2009 9:52 PM


I am at a loss to understand where you are getting the idea that I am advocating HR telling managers their jobs or that I am recommending that HR override what the managers are saying with regards to discipline problems.
Posted by: Cathie at 9/24/2009 12:12 AM


I agree that I don't see anywhere that Cathie has implied that HR override what the managers are saying with regards to discipline problems. I am also at a loss to understand the basis for Eileen's comments.
Posted by: HR - RM at 9/24/2009 11:37 AM


I thought Cathie's column told me to stay out of it. Having gone through more than one downsizing, I've seen the supervisory chain of command twisted more than once. Eileen's comments make me wonder if we read the same thing. Even the tone of Eileen's comments seem harsh.
Posted by: Janie at 9/24/2009 12:55 PM


I think where the line became "blurred" was in Cathie talking about her personal experiences with "dotted line" responsibilities and "managers" with "dotted line" responsibilities. When I first read the article, I thought hmmm--not really. Then I "re-read" the article and it became clear what was actually being said.
Posted by: Merlynn Bertini at 9/24/2009 1:38 PM


Well Cathie that makes two of us that are at a loss of the idea that you are advocating HR telling managers their jobs or that you are recommending that HR override what the managers are saying with regards to discipline problems.
Companies differ and you can have two people with identical titles at different companies do very different jobs. But I have yet to bulletin a position for a “dotted line supervisor”; there is no “dotted line supervisor” that is the confusion (thank you Merlynn). Having supervisory experience can mean a broad range of things and certainly not all supervisors have hire/fire authority. And many people who “technically” have hire/fire authority can't say boo! without 14 layers of people signing off.
Posted by: Eileen at 9/24/2009 8:27 PM


Eileen, very well said! The employer would dictate who does the disciplining. It isn't as cut and dry as Cathie states.
Posted by: Kierstin at 9/24/2009 9:29 PM


Will one of you, Kiersten or Eileen, please show me where I said that anyone other than the employer decided on discipline?
Posted by: Cathie at 9/25/2009 8:23 AM


I have a dotted line supervisor working for me. He runs our ebay auctions. We hired someone to help him with his workload. He makes all the key day to day decisions (what items we should run and at what price); she handles the technical end (getting listings up,...). He is the senior member with dotted line supervisor. He assigns tasks to her, the junior member, and checks her work. They both report to the person who manages all of our inventory. The senior member is not responsible for discipling the junior member, the official supervisor (to whom they both report) is.

i hope this concrete example helps clarify.
Posted by: leon( Visit ) at 9/25/2009 9:44 AM


"It's my opinion that when there is an "official" supervisor and a dotted-line supervisor, the official supervisor should be the one who handles all disciplinary issues." - Direct quote from blog.
Posted by: Kierstin at 9/26/2009 12:06 AM


Blanket statements have always irritated me. I would hope that as a consultant you don't believe this is the case in every working environment. I also don't like the term "dotted-line supervisor." People have titles and with titles - they *should* have a job description to go with that title. In that job description, it *should* spell out what duties they should carry out, to include who they have reign over. Maybe your next blog can be about job descriptions and why they are so important.
Posted by: Kierstin at 9/26/2009 12:20 AM


Sorry, Kiersten, but that quote proves my point, not yours. If the official supervisor, i.e. the employee's direct line manager is not the "employer", who is?
Posted by: Cathie at 9/26/2009 12:21 AM


Oh… I see where Kiersten is coming from now, I was trying to figure out where Eileen had implied Cathie wanted HR to override what the managers are saying with regards to discipline problems. I could not find Eileen implying any such thing but Cathie seemed emphatic that she had. Kiersten must read a great deal of gobbledegoo to find what Cathie needed Have you ever tried to get a hold of the actual PERSON who made a bad policy decision? Or does "run-around" come to your mind? If HR wants to make a policy, fine, but we better be willing to stand behind it, answer questions and deal with the fall out.
Posted by: Sandy at 9/26/2009 12:31 AM


Sorry Cathie, but I seem to have missed what point you are trying to make with me. I am refuting the statement that I quoted above. Someone can be a "dotted-line supervisor" and still have the authority to discipline. I don't understand why you believe the official supervisor should solely have this responsibility. Why have a chain of command? My senior management team have too many responsibilities to take time out of their hectic schedules to discipline an employee for being tardy. So no, I don't agree with your statement above.
Posted by: Kierstin at 9/26/2009 7:45 PM


Kierstin anyone can be a consultant you need no qualifications. Human resource consulting totally depends on the company. Could be just about anything in HR. I would be surprised if Cathie is holding any qualifications, certifications, or is currently consulting other than this blog.
Posted by: Eileen at 9/29/2009 7:47 PM


Eileen, you can disagree all you want with the blog, but personal attacks and insults are inappropriate, unprofessional, and unwarranted on this website. I would appreciate it if you would limit your comments to the topic at hand.

Gloria Ju
Editor in Chief
AHI
Posted by: Gloria at AHI at 9/30/2009 9:14 AM


YIKES! First let's throw some ice on the bloggers and commentators. Ok. I am an HR professional and I read Cathie's column all the time -- and Gloria's too -- I find them good for team discussion and use with my line production managers.

What am I? I am a resource for my "customers" -- the line managers. I am also the lifeguard to help them not get in over their head. And I am the bad guy. Sometimes you have to let managers say, "HR said..." because that manager needs a working relationship with the person.

Somedays HR is a tightrope, fire walk and snake pit all rolled into one!
Posted by: J. T. Breslin at 10/5/2009 4:18 PM


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